Great and Unsearchable Things

Things the Lord gives me, and then I write them.

Monday, February 11, 2008

Seeking the Counsel of Many

I hope I can communicate what I am asking counsel and perspective about effectively. What is on my mind and heart is this: What do you do when you are pretty confident that someone is trying to manipulate you for the purpose of controlling you? I have run into this monster before, and have tried to defeat it, but it seemsl like I usually end up feeling guilty, and I am the one to suffer internally because of it. It seems to throw me for a loop. Even though, I feel that Jesus would not have us succumb to this kind of control, still it oppresses me. Then the thoughts come in that say-How do you really know this someone is trying to manipulate you? How do you know it's not just you not wanting to do what they want you to do because of your own rebellion or selfishness or fear of being controlled? These are tormenting, because they always keep you wondering what really is the truth here. I have asked the Lord about all of this, and as far as I can hear, He spoke to me by saying: "There is security or wisdom in the counsel of many," from the book of Proverbs so I am thinking that He is saying, "Ask the Body," and I will speak through them. I really want to "kick that demon's butt" hard, so he will never be able to put me in this quandry again. I just hate that he is able to shake me up like this. What do you do when that happens, and how to you respond either in the spiritual realm or in the natural when you are dealing with the people involved.

8 Comments:

  • At 2/11/2008 9:59 AM , Anonymous neil girrard said...

    Hi Patty,

    You’ve asked these questions in an open forum so I will answer in an open forum. You are not the only one who has to deal with this so your openness is going to benefit others as well.

    You wrote:
    >What do you do when you are pretty confident that someone is trying to manipulate you for the purpose of controlling you?

    Probably the first question is: Does this other person claim to follow Christ? Love bears all things – but love also confronts a sinning brother. First, you need light – the light of Christ. If you think you’re being manipulated, go to that brother alone and, if nothing else, shed light on the question of being manipulated.

    If this person does not claim to follow Christ, ask Jesus what to do. He may have you confront. He may have you endure silently. He may have you shake the dust off your heels where this person is concerned.

    You wrote:
    >I have run into this monster before, and have tried to defeat it, but it seems like I usually end up feeling guilty, and I am the one to suffer internally because of it. It seems to throw me for a loop.

    FEELINGS of guilt are only a lie. The Holy Spirit CONVICTS of sin. He only brings you to an honest, emotion-less (relatively speaking) answer to the question of: Are you guilty or not? Guilt is only a question of FACT and never FEELINGS. If you are guilty of some sin, confess it and be rid of it. If all you have are lying feelings, cast all your cares on Him who cares for you and get on with Life!

    You wrote:
    >Even though, I feel that Jesus would not have us succumb to this kind of control, still it oppresses me. Then the thoughts come in that say-How do you really know this someone is trying to manipulate you?

    You FEEL that Jesus would not have us succumb to this kind of control? KNOW it and BELIEVE it!!! We MUST obey GOD rather than men.

    You wrote:
    >How do you know it's not just you not wanting to do what they want you to do because of your own rebellion or selfishness or fear of being controlled?

    There is only One who searches and knows the deeply deceitful human heart. What you describe here is what Watchman Nee called “internal paralysis.” It’s an endless loop, a conundrum, because you’ve started off by asking the wrong person - you’re asking yourself. It’s about as useless as asking, “What would Jesus do?” He’s in your heart – ask HIM what He is doing and what’s going on in your life! Anything else will produce only spiritual frustration.

    You wrote:
    >I really want to "kick that demon's butt" hard, so he will never be able to put me in this quandry again. I just hate that he is able to shake me up like this.

    The shaking is to show you that you are not as firmly rooted in the kingdom of God (His unshakeable kingdom) as you need and ought to be. There’s still something of the old nature at work in the hidden recesses of your soul. But know this – if you abide (remain, dwell, keep) in Christ’s words (teachings, truth), you are His disciple and you will come to progressively know the truth and the truth will progressively set you free. These words were first spoken to believers who allowed the demonic to gain mastery over their actions but the offer from Christ still stands to all who will continue to believe. As you have come to know Christ (by faith), so walk (live, abide, remain) in Him.

    You wrote:
    >What do you do when that happens, and how to you respond either in the spiritual realm or in the natural when you are dealing with the people involved.

    There are no rules – there is a Head, Christ Jesus. The Head will lead you to demonstrate agape (self-sacrificing, divine-natured) love that brings light, truth and life. You will fulfill the essence of all the “rules” when you allow Him to really be the Head in your life.

    May God bless your efforts to walk in Him.

    Neil Girrard
    paidionbooks.org

     
  • At 2/11/2008 10:45 AM , Blogger Barbara said...

    Well Patti, this can be a hard one when one does not know the circumstances but what is necessary is discernment first. Is the problem with the other person or is it within you. Certainly you are taking on guilt which only comes from the enemy. If you truly believ e that Jesus lives in you then you can believe for Him to work this out through you. If yu are open before God you will KNOW whether yu are being controlled or not because that is what manipulation, it is control. If this is so you look into your spirit and see what you spirit is saying in the situation. You are afraid to do that because of what you see as a possible rebellious nature., If you feel that is in you then all you have to do is repent of it and stop trying to work it all out but start trusting and believing in the one that is in you.He WILL lead you into all truth.There is a place of intercession where you can take it all as you believe for the other person or youcan trust God to show yu what you need to do in order to be of help to the other person. You do not want to be feeding the other person's problem by meek acceptance though. Bottom line God wants for you to be who you are in the situation. Being who you are in Christ, trusting but not trying and NOT taking those feelings of guilt when they come along. That is all they are feelings and they usually come to throw us off what we need to be doing in a situation.
    Always remember the spirit lifts up the enemy puts down. Youare in my prayers.

     
  • At 2/11/2008 12:52 PM , Blogger Patti Blount said...

    Neil and Barbara-I REAllY appreciate your input, time, and effort to deliver your heartfelt counsel to me. God has shown me what is going on, and also has prepared me for what is to come, and has also assured me of His strategy when things do come to a head. I am confident that He is in control, and that the end result will be a good one, changing the hearts of those involved. I didn't have this confidence until the Lord worked it in me. Seeking your counsel was God's directive in me, and, however it all works, I am more sound and whole now. Just responding to His will in this was a key to Him responding to me, and you all were part of that process. Please, others, give your counsel also even though it seems like I don't need it. Who knows how God will use it? What is in you as far as the wisdom of God needs to be released for His use. It is like gold for the one who needs it. God bless you all.:)

     
  • At 2/11/2008 1:00 PM , Blogger Mike said...

    Difficult one. I just feel that if someone is trying to control you then you probably know it and it probably makes you feel BAD. Getting advice from someone who knows you both is a really good move. Blessings.
    This I Do...

     
  • At 2/11/2008 2:57 PM , Blogger FishHawk said...

    After reading through the comments that have already been left: there is really not much to add without hearing more about the specific circumstances involved. For the devil is in the details (so to speak).

    Even more so, however: So is our Heavenly Father. For the truth that sets me free from wanting to condemn others for their actions too harshly {Matthew 7:1-2} is that He truly is in full and complete control of all that happens in this world {Job 12:13-25}: even in this day and age of post-modern sophistication {2 Peter 3:3-9}.

    No, this is not meant to serve as an excuse for misbehavior. For all are held accountable for what they truly are responsible for {Colossian 3:25}.

    Nonetheless: may we keep in mind {1 Corinthians 2:6-16} that the mote in someone else's eye was placed there by the very same One who placed a beam in our own eyes (either directly or indirectly) {Matthew 7:3-5} and that it is meant for the benefit of all concerned {Romans 8:28}. For many have fallen into the trap of thinking that it is the duty of our Heavenly Father's chosen servants to rid this world of all demonic activity {1 Peter 5:6-11} when the absolute truth of the matter truly is that they are being used for the glory of His Kingdom {2 Corinthians 12:7-10}.

    No, this is not to deny that our Heavenly Father's chosen servants are called to cast out demons {Mark 16:15-18}; but be assured that it is the same with this spiritual gift as it is for all of the others {1 Corinthians 12:11}. For the power to do anything good lies in the One who dwells within the hearts of His children by faith {John 15:5-8}: not in the children themselves {Philippians 4:13}; and to want to go beyond that is surely a road that leads to destruction {Matthew 7:21-23}.

    Alas, I suppose it all comes down unto what we want to believe {James 1:2-8}. For when something happens that we do not like it is quite natural to think that it must be of the devil and needs to be stopped forthwith.

     
  • At 2/11/2008 8:32 PM , Blogger FishHawk said...

    You've just been tagged for one of those loathsome MeMes. Please go here to see what happens next: http://asthecrackerheadcrumbles.blogspot.com/2008/02/meme-of-personal-quirky-facts.html

    (Sorry, someone had to get it. If you don't want to play it's okay).

     
  • At 2/13/2008 6:29 PM , Anonymous Justin Erb said...

    Hey Mrs Blount,

    What the others wrote was good, sound advice. You should never bow down to the spirits of control and manipulation. I know your a spiritually discerning person so don't listen to the lies of the enemy that would say it's just you being rebellious or selfish. You KNOW when someone is manipulating you. Satan wants you to feel intimidated, and fear will keep you from speaking the truth. Many believers do this and think their "loving their enemy" or being Christ-like because they remain silent when in reality they're just submitting to the spirit they're supposed to be fighting against.

    Deceiving spirits deceive! they'll try to deceive you and the person they're operating through. They come with a whole host of lies and thoughts that you just described. Trust the Spirit of Truth within you and open your mouth. You don't have to bash someone with the Bible in order to speak the truth. Do it in love... It may still offend, hurt, and sting a bit, but your helping the person understand a fundament aspect of the Kingdom of Heaven...TRUTH. If we really love people we'll give them the TRUTH. The truth can be painful but it's still truth. I don't like to spank my kids but if it will help lead them away from a sinful future and instill Godly principle than so be it. I do it with purposeful intent. I hate to expose things in peoples lives... no one does. But I do it with purposeful intent in order that Christ will be manifest in that person life in a fuller way. In order that Light would kick the darkness out! I'm a gentle person by nature so I do it in a gentle way. Do it in a way that the person can receive what your saying. I was talking with a group of young believers yesterday and was amazed how God touched each of their lives. For some it was a bold "loud" proclamation of the gospel. For others it was a small act of kindness from a fellow christian. for anther it was the written Word of God. God gets into our hearts through different ways. A discerning Christian does the same with the hearts of those he's trying to reach.

    In ministry people try and manipulate me all the time. Sometimes on a daily basis. They ask a question full of manipulation and I ask them why they asked the question in that way. Exposing the intent of the heart from the beginning. A weed is easy to pluck out of the ground if its young. If its mature you might have a lot of work ahead of you.

    Praise the Lord you care enough to say something and ask for advice. Praise the Lord you want to help this person get free from the lies of the enemy. Thank you Lord that your raising up people full of the TRUTH.

    We love you!

     
  • At 2/14/2008 7:14 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

    Comment:

    To manipulate and control is a type of witchcraft. The whole system of slavery was witchcraft. It is abuse. Abusers are insecure, jealous. Jealousy is a murdering thing.

    How can you walk with someone you are not in agreement with? This is not love. God is love.

    John 7:1 After these things Jesus walked in Galilee: for he would not walk in Jewry, because the Jews sought to kill him.

     

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